Sister Michelle
Administrator
I must keep my eyes on Jesus my Saviour
Posts: 1,065
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Post by Sister Michelle on Feb 26, 2007 9:02:10 GMT -5
I have been thinking about this lately and taking with DH on this subject. So many times it seems as if some people go to church because. No better reason that is just the thing to do. Others go to be see and to see. Church is a social club to them. It is a place to go and show off that new dress, shoes, or purse. Then there is this crowd and they say that we need to go to church to be preached at. But I do not think any of these reasons are why we go to church. We need to go to church for the fellowship that it affords. We are in the world all week long. No matter how much you isolate your family the world still sticks it head in. Even driving any where you are assultaed by billboards that should be labled as pornography. We need to get together with the saints and encourage one another. We need that time of refreshment. The church is NOT the place to bring the lost into. We need to win the lost to the Lord. Do not miss my point on this. If the church is a "called out assembly" we are called out of something. That is the world. So why would we want to bring what we have been called out of into our churches. We need to get feed so that we can go out into the world and win the lost ones to Christ. We need a time of refreshing.
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Post by coveredwifeoftim on Mar 2, 2007 16:30:59 GMT -5
That's very interesting. I always thought that the unsaved needing to be in church to be saved. Wouldn't it make sense to have them in the church and be around godly Christians and maybe they will see a difference? I'm not trying to argue but was just wondering. I admit though it would seem to make sense in away to keep someone who isn't saved and isn't interested in church out because that person could "poison" the rest of the congregation with his/her worldliness.
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Sister Michelle
Administrator
I must keep my eyes on Jesus my Saviour
Posts: 1,065
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Post by Sister Michelle on Mar 6, 2007 16:01:50 GMT -5
Well the unsaved should be reached through soul winning. So many times we forget that the church is a called out assembly. And yes it is to keep the worldlyness out of the church so we can be a spotless bride for our Lord.
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Post by coveredwifeoftim on Mar 6, 2007 19:50:57 GMT -5
Thank you Michelle! I think I got it now. We are in the midst of leaving our church. We are just not growing there and we disagree with some of the teachings there. We really don't know where to go to church. We've been visiting a small Baptist church but we don't think that's where we should be. We visited a Conservative Mennonite church once but it is two hours away. I think really good churches are hard to find. So many of them are giving in to the world and it's ideas on dress,music etc. Such a crying shame
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Post by soukz8696 on Apr 1, 2007 7:59:09 GMT -5
That makes alot of sense. I know that when i go to church i always leave feeling refreshed like i can make it through anything that I can. I agree that it is hard to find a good church. I have been trying to find a church for a little over a year. I was wondering if someone could answer a question for me? The question is this am I looking for the wrong thing in a church if I want even if I am a new vistor for someone in the church to actually speak to me and say hi. My dh works graveyards so he isnt able to go to church and when me and the kids go alone its like I am being judge of being a single mom I have tried two churches going at least 6 months before i make a judgement and not once in 6 months did the pastor ever speak to me. Only one church member has spoken to me.
michelle
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Bridgette
Faithful Lady
God is good, all the time. All the time, God is good!!
Posts: 57
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Post by Bridgette on Apr 2, 2007 7:19:51 GMT -5
from michelle's post: The church is NOT the place to bring the lost into. We need to win the lost to the Lord. Do not miss my point on this. If the church is a "called out assembly" we are called out of something.
i totally agree with you. while visiting a church last night, their pastor has some totally different ideas on this. he felt we need to bring EVERYBODY in! it made me sad.
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Beth
Member
Posts: 5
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Post by Beth on Apr 5, 2007 10:10:37 GMT -5
I agree! This is the same thinking of Calvin and leaders of the Reformation. Though Calvin did focus on missions/missionaries he had the same feeling about the church an even went on to say that so much of the world ha entered the church, his first mission field was withIN the church itself!
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Post by ladysnow on Apr 5, 2007 21:21:27 GMT -5
I have to also agree with this. I know all to well that "bringing" someone into the church doesn't change them. My husband and an elder from our church does jail ministry. We have had at least two men come into our church after they were released and their "so called" conversion...was short lived. It's really sad when I see churches "conforming" to the world to make it more appealing. And yes....a good church is hard to find. I am very lucky.
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Post by juanitalynn on Apr 25, 2007 8:41:47 GMT -5
I don't exactly agree with not bringing the lost to church. Yes I do agree that for saved people, church is a wonderful place of fellowship, learning, & growing. And I agree that the church should not follow the world, or go worldly. If the Pastor of that local church has taken the oversight as the Bible commands, then the lost in the church will not make the church more worldly. The lost need to see a difference in the people there.
As it says in Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
But the Bible also teaches in 1 Cor. 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. God chose preaching to convict and save the lost. So, How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14.
I do agree that we need to go out into the world & to witness & be a light for Christ. But we also need to get them into the house of God. For a lost person will not be able to sit under good preaching for to long without getting saved, or getting out. Though there are those religious lost (which I was one for many years), that will sit under good preaching for years, blinded, & deceived by satan. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Rev. 20:10 When Jesus preached on the wheat and the tares He said in Matthew 13:24-30
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
He was not going to pull up the tares, because if he did, the tares would pull up wheat also. So....all those religous lost have family, and you try to pull them out, or keep them out, you lose the saved family members as well.
I believe church is first and foremost about worshiping our Lord in Sprirt and in truth. That should be our main moitivator in going to church. Then God blesses us with fellowship with our spiritual family & the hearing of the word of God that makes us grow, and increases our faith.
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homeschoolmomof4
Member
Child of the king, wife of Anthony, mom of Johnathan, Wyatt, Courtney, and Kiara
Posts: 7
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Post by homeschoolmomof4 on Apr 26, 2007 10:24:14 GMT -5
I agree very much with jaunita on this one. For those of us Christians it should be a place for a renewing and refilling each and every time we go. For the lost it's a beacon calling to them. They need the church to hear about what Christ has done for us and for them. If we keep them out then they have little chance of being saved. I know if it wasn't for the lost going into the church then myelf, my husband or my oldest son would not be Christians today. That is where we heard the gospel of Jesus Christ. That's where we accepted Him as our saviour. There are many of our church members that came from non Christian homes and had no influence around them other than what they gotten at church. One of our greatest teen leaders is a perfect example of that. His parents and siblings are about as unbelieving as you can get and yet he's now a strong teen Christain young man. I'm sure there are many other stories such as these that would support the lost coming into the church. Now, I would definately disagree with a lost person as a leader in the church. Then it can cause the church to go astray. But with good strong leadership there's not much of a chance of that happening.
God be with you, Debby
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tbhas6
Senior Member
Posts: 1,146
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Post by tbhas6 on Nov 6, 2007 1:59:31 GMT -5
I have a personal story to tell.
More than two decades ago my #1 and I were pushed out of our family AND our church because I refused to abort him. My situation brought a tremendous amount of disgrace to my family, they wanted to hide it, and EVERYONE in our church treated me as if I were a leaper, I think they were afraid unwed pregnancies were contagious. Anyhow, the "shunning" sobered up my mind and I purposed in my heart to seek forgiveness from our Lord for my sins and live the best Christian life I could so my child, hopefully, wouldn't take the path I'd taken.
Unfortunately, they all told me that God would not forgive me and we were doomed to an eternity in Hell. My son and I were completely rejected. In my heart, I saw the rejection of these people as God's rejection of us. This allowed shame to take root in my heart. I couldn't understand why the Bible taught that the vilest of sinners could could repent and be saved but my son and I couldn't.
For more than ten years, this prodigal, me, tried to seek forgiveness from our Lord through the only place I knew - churches. Reading the Bible had no effect on me because of the bad root that had taken hold in my heart, I was so very blinded by it. The moment church members found out I was a single mom the expressions of "we don't want your kind contaminating our perfect world" came out. Consequently, I didn't spiral into the gutter, I spiraled into the sewage system. No, I didn't use drugs, I didn't steel, I didn't hurt others. But the drug dealers hurt me and the thieves hurt my son more than anyone can imagine. Why? Because we were not even good enough for the vilest of the vile. My self esteem spiraled so low, I am amazed that my #1 and I are alive today - I can not tell you how many times during those dark years I contemplated murder suicide of my son and my self.
But as so many redeemed have said, "BUT GOD". After more than 10 years of searching and hoping, in my mind, against all odds, Our Lord loved me so much that He sent a real Christian to minister to me. He sent someone who took the time to see that I longed for and was hungry for Christ. He sent someone who was observant enough to see that the enemy had lied to me and made me believe that I had to be accepted by Christians before I could be accepted by Christ. This Christian befriended me when I was unlovable. Isn't that what Christ did for us? Didn't He love and die us while we were STILL sinners?
After only knowing this Christian a few months, I cried out to God at the foot of my bed. I cried, "Oh God! where are you?" " I need you!" "Please, Please don't reject me!" "I beg you to forgive me!" In my heart I felt the Lord answer, "My child, my child, I have been here all along. Turn around, you've been looking in the wrong place."
The following Sunday, we attended church alone. We did not attend the Sunday school hour and we purposed to arrive 15 minutes late to the worship service. Being late, I was able to sneak into the back pew. We tip-toed out at the close of the sermon - not waiting for the alter call. We continued this pattern in our church attendance for over a year. Why? Because, being a prodigal, I knew I needed discipleship so I could grow in Christ. I needed to hear the word preached. I also knew that if just one Christian had rejected at me again- I would run as fast as I could away from Christ. I was terrified that if I'd experienced even one more rejection, I'd never have another chance to worship, serve or be loved by our Saviour and that I and my son would most certainly spend our eternities in Hell.
I do not attend the church or the denomination I grew up in. My father and a distant Aunt are the only family members that have contact with us. But that's O.K. because God found me a church home elsewhere. Today, my children and I are very active in our church. I teach Jr. high girls, my #1 & #2 live out of state but are inquired of often, my #3 assists in our children's ministries and my little #4 & #5 love attending Sunday school, Sunday worship and Wednesday Bible study every week. Everyone in our church knows my #1 was an unplanned, unwedded birth. Everyone in my church rejoices that this prodigal found her way home.
No, Christians and the church are not supposed to conform to the ways of this world. We are to introduce the lost to the Lord Jesus Christ. The lost know they are dirty. They know they are sinners. They know if they continue in their current state they will suffer the ultimate rejection. The lost sinners who dare to darken the doors of the local church do not want us to be like the world nor do they desire to continue in the world. They are looking for something more than what the world has to offer. I had a Sunday school teacher once say, "It's our job ot catch them - It's Christ's job to clean them." When the lost enter a church - they are desperate for Jesus Christ. Do they see Him in you?
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lanabelle
Charitable Lady
I want to be a teacher of good things.
Posts: 100
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Post by lanabelle on Nov 7, 2007 9:49:41 GMT -5
tb, Thank you for sharing that personal and very candid experience with us. It would be helpful for each of to remember that we were lost at one time and also that we as human beings (even Christians) make terrible mistakes! My heart goes out to the young girl that all of this happened to but as well my heart rejoices with the much wiser woman that God brought throught it! I have a good friend who says "If He brings you to it, He'll bring you through it." Thank God for that! Thanks for reminding me that Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost! While we don't want to bring worldliness into our worship we are to reach out to a lost and dying world around us and realize that everyone is a "whosoever." We have in us the mind of Christ, if we will allow it to do the thinking we will be much better for it. Love is the key to it all! Lana
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Post by mountaingirl on Nov 20, 2007 1:37:38 GMT -5
I agree with juanitalynn and homeschoolmomof4.
It is very easy to lose our way in our walk with God because we live in this world. Church can be a wonderful reminder of what God expects from us and when we answer to the call of the Lord how we can be blessed. I personally know that this helps me.
How can we expect a non-believer but yet someone searching for the answers, get those answers if we don't welcome them to hear the truth. Not only hear the truth, but to hear the truth surrounded by believers.
As far as non-believers coming into the church and changing some of te believers or causing ripples, remember we are all accountable for our faith as individuals. Anytime we walk away from the word of God we have to take responsibility for it because that is a choice that we made.
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